On every episode of the Rebel Instinct, our team sits down with rebels from across the marketing landscape to share stories about bold moves they’ve taken as marketers. Subscribe for more.
Galen Ettlin:
You are listening to the Rebel Instinct Podcast by Act-On Software for all the marketing innovators living outside the box. Hey everybody, I’m Galen Ettlin with Act-On Software and today we’re switching it up, spicing things up here. My VP of marketing, Casey Munk, who is usually here, is taking a breather, and so I’m joined today instead by Jennifer Blanco, senior customer marketing manager for Act-On. Jennifer, you have helped me so much to navigate this new space when I started a few months ago, so I’m really excited to have you here. Thanks for joining.
Jennifer Blanco:
Very happy to be here. Thanks so much, Galen.
Galen Ettlin:
Yeah, and of course our guest today is a friend of yours, Jennifer, Leo Ochoa, a designer and innovator who founded Dorsum, focused on mobility support devices, literally life-changing kind of stuff for people. Thank you so much for being here, Leo.
Leo Ochoa:
Absolutely. Thank you so much for the invitation. I’m excited to be here.
Jennifer Blanco:
Leo, it’s so great to see you. Thank you so much for accepting and joining. We actually have not seen each other in person for quite some time, obviously if there was a pandemic, but I always follow you on social and keep track of what you’ve been doing and what Dorsum has been doing and have been a champion of yours. So super excited to dive into everything today.
Leo Ochoa:
Thank you so much for the invitation as well. You’ve always been a supporter ever since I’ve known you of everything. I do all my projects and I was so happy when I got the invitation from you, so thank you again.
Jennifer Blanco:
You rock. Let’s do this.
Galen Ettlin:
See, that’s the kind of happy family stuff that I love. Alright, so Leo, for people who don’t know, tell us about Dorsum and what the tech does that you’re helping produce.
Leo Ochoa:
Yeah, so Dorsum literally means a reference to the back and the problem we’re solving is the issue of back pain, specifically lower back pain manifests in different ways for different people, but we’re starting with creating a device that inserts into apparel to stabilize the lower back of the human body and allow for movement to happen. So that’s in generic description. The technology in our first innovative product that we’ve launched to market is the Dorsum exo spine.
Video promo interview audio:
“What I love about the Dorsum back support is the curvature of the lumbar spine…”
Leo Ochoa:
If you think of a backpack without the pack, so basic lightweight harness that wraps around your back and supports your posture while giving you posture feedback,
Galen Ettlin:
That’s pretty amazing and I would imagine really helps people who are injured or maybe have other conditions where they need that extra support. Now you’ve worked with other companies, big ones, Columbia Sportswear, Phillips Sonica, and others. How did this journey come together for you though going from say, footwear and dental care to now these exo spines?
Leo Ochoa:
It really was just following my interest, which comes from art and design and solving real big life problems with Columbia. It was about designing footwear, being in product creation teams to help people be active, to enjoy the outdoors, just be more physically involved with nature. From there I learned I had a deeper passion for product creation, taking an idea to the design process development and then launching it to market. But I wanted to design more than just footwear. So I went back to school in LA and pulling from my inspiration from growing up outside of Portland, being a wildland firefighter and then tackling the issues of healthcare, we were giving the assignment to design innovative products for the future, to redesign what I believe a paramedic uniform should be with this built-in back support. That got me my job at Phillips Healthtech, pulled me up to Seattle and then I started designing healthcare products for dentistry but also health management, so categories that really elevated my design skills to solve for improving people’s health.
Galen Ettlin:
Talk about a journey and now you’re doing something that supports the body in other new ways. What inspired you to do that specifically?
Leo Ochoa:
It was a bit of ignoring the call until I couldn’t and then just responding to it. I had, coming out of design school, I had this concept that really attracted people’s attention. I got invited to go to Italy to present to a health and wellness conference and just hearing people say, this is great, I see the need for it, take it as far as you can, and then receiving emails from first responders and said, Hey, I saw this on your website, I think this can help me get back to work. How can I purchase one? At that time I learned everything about taking my design through the innovation process and creating a patent, and it was just the constant emails that made me think things differently and I decided I’m going to exit corporate life and launch myself into entrepreneurship and really learn how to bring this to life and all the resources I need to put together.
Jennifer Blanco:
Leo, I feel like, I mean I’m still so proud of you, but that’s so scary to leave something that is so comfortable and really follow your dream into the unknown. How did you navigate that entire experience to actually launch a real life company?
Leo Ochoa:
Yeah, scary is the best description because it’s fun and exciting to dream about it, and it’s really scary to take the first leap, I really had to prepare myself for a whole year and question myself, is this really the next step? Is this really what I want to do and what does it take not just resources, but internally? How do I need to change my mindset to respond to this? So I did spend about a year preparing myself, saving up so that I can reduce that fear and also starting to do mind mapping on how do I take the leap before taking it and then just learning how much can I learn from the next step so that I can take it and prepare myself the best I can.
Jennifer Blanco:
What is one of the key things that you did in all of your preparation that could help any of us looking to take a big step or a risk?
Leo Ochoa:
It really was weighing out the different fears because taking the leap was once in a sense, there’s a lot of fear behind it, taking a leap into the unknown, but I also had a fear and a worry deeper that made me think things differently, saying I also have a fear of not trying. I have a fear of not realizing my full potential, of not pushing myself more, getting myself out of that comfort zone and really responding to what I think is a call. So that fear of not trying and letting a dream slip out of your hands was bigger than taking a leap from the job I had that was very comfortable and not trying because I thought, okay, if I take the leap and fail, I have my skills, I have my passion, I can always get back into getting another job, but if I let my dream die, I just thought it was going to kill me from the inside and that slow, what do you call it, sadness of letting a dream slip out of your hands was the fear behind everything and it’s still what drives me today.
Jennifer Blanco:
Yeah. Well, thank you. I feel like that’s very inspirational and very relatable. I was just going to say, you all had things like that for me, it was leaving Portland and moving to New York and now I’m back in Portland, but if I wouldn’t have done that, I want to be who I am today. So I completely understand thinking through, okay, this is the Rebel Instinct podcast, so if you had to think through one thing that you would think is rebellious that you had to do in order to drive momentum and success or awareness for dorsum, what do you think that would be?
Leo Ochoa:
I started everything in 2017, kind of stealth mode, prototyping, designing, innovating, really taking big ideas and bringing them down to smaller portions that would be considered your MVP, the most viable product that you can launch in the market. Reduce cost, it took us two years to really design everything as minimal as it is now. And 2019, there was a huge growth factor that happened within myself and our team. We designed it so many different times and pitching, getting feedback, everyone was telling us because we were getting close to the end of the year. It was around this time that we launched and we took three months to prepare ourselves to launch via crowdfunding, and everybody was telling us, it’s the wrong timing. You’re too close to the holidays, you’re not going to have the biggest splash in the market. It’s going to be an uphill battle navigating through holiday marketing and you’re a startup, it’s going to sink your marketing budget.
And everyone was telling me, wait till next year. But I had this gut instinct, which I think now is that rebel instinct where you just feed off of your momentum and that’s what helps push through that fear. And I just had a feeling that no, we can’t wait. We’re going to lose the momentum and then we can’t let three months go by and start fresh next year, then it’s going to delay everything. We decided to do it anyway. Everyone was telling us to wait. But what ended up happening is, as we all know, beginning of 2020, the world changed, our production stopped, crowdfunding stopped everybody’s own fear, just elevated. Suddenly, had I not launched, I don’t know where I would be now. I probably would be preparing to launch now and would’ve lost two or three years. But the fact that I didn’t held back, I still got the team together, we continued forward is the ability that positioned us to where we are now
Galen Ettlin:
And what a wild kind of serendipitous thing for you to have internally to know now is the time because none of us could have predicted how 2020 was going to shake out.
Leo Ochoa:
And 2020 just changed everything. Seeing the next level of fear where we realized, oh my God, what have we done? We launched and then it felt like the momentum we were expecting, the wind was just taking out of our wings and we were starting to sink and manufacturing or development plans, everything was paused and everyone was trying to figure things out. We had to navigate all 2020, kind of more like in survival mode, just we had launch and now it’s like, okay, we need to just keep things going. It’s not the pretty launch we were expecting, but we need to just navigate through it, less visionary, less forward thinking, more like how can we navigate all these challenges that are coming to us suddenly so fast while everyone is doing the same thing? And I think that really made us stronger emotionally and it made us our mindset quicker to adjust to whatever the moment or the present brings.
Jennifer Blanco:
So I was thinking we could switch gears a little bit here, Leo. We are a marketing automation company. I am a marketer, and I’m sure that you work with plenty of marketers or have experienced working with plenty of marketers as you’ve been trying to get dorsum tech up and running and now as you’re trying to and continuing to have success and sharing it more broadly, broadly. So broadly from your perspective, what is it that you think marketers could do better to support their customers?
Leo Ochoa:
Yeah, I’ve thought about this a lot because learning from the way we do things and the way we communicate our message and we’re doing, we’re learning as we go. But what I see other marketers could do, especially with the times as they are now, is to just help reduce customer or client fear. We’re to are still in a moment where things are changing rapidly. At the same time, technology is advancing online shopping is accelerating, communication is becoming more confusing, and it just increases anxiety from our followers, our customers, our clients. And what I think marketing could do is just help reduce that fear and anxiety by being honest, authentic, and direct. With the messaging, I think we have less time to grab their attention. It’s moments where we experienced less inspirational and more helping them navigate, helping them make the best decision. And once they do decide to work with us, letting them know that we’re going to be there along the way, that we’re not going away, we’re going to help them use our product best, we’re going to help them along the way as well as they grow. Personally,
Jennifer Blanco:
I love what you said about calming fear, so thank you. I’m going to take that and write a little post-it note and stick it on my computer.
Galen Ettlin:
We could all do with a little bit less fear, right? Calm the nerves. I mean something that was probably pretty nerve wracking becoming a founder and c e o of your own company. But now looking at it kind of from the broader sense, a lot of more experience now, how do you view marketing differently today than you did when you were strictly a product designer?
Leo Ochoa:
Gosh, when I look at marketing, I think from all angles now, it’s more a holistic view. The face of the company, when I get in front and present or pitch, there’s still a lot of ideas in my head that I have to communicate to others that are helping me. So right now it’s more forward thinking in the sense that I’m connecting with clients. It’s more direct communication with our customers, our followers, and learning from them and learning what’s resonating with them, what words we’re using that help them in what words we’re using that pushed them away. When I was strictly a designer part of a design team, I felt disconnected from that. We were always kind of living in the future trying to design the next trend, the next breakthrough technology, and it was very much in the lab space and working with marketing directors, marketing teams, but we felt disconnected from the consumer. Now I feel very approachable that anyone with an idea can come to me. Our customers that they have an issue, they can bring it to me. And my job right now is to figure out how do we remove that friction? How do we make their lives easier? How do we make staying engaged with us more comfortable? And I like that part more because it feels more human, more personable.
Jennifer Blanco:
That’s kind of a theme that mentioned a couple of times now is that personal element and it can be a differentiator for your business. It’s something that stands out in the customer’s mind. I mean, we all know what good customer service is and what bad customer service is.
Leo Ochoa:
Absolutely we try to bring that element to our product too, because when people think of exo spines or exoskeletons, they think of very robotic, mechanical, very cold, and it’s like, no, we’re designing from a human perspective of movement of motion a more natural way. So we want that to communicate visually in our marketing, in our images, but also in our product, the way we describe it, the way it moves and in the words we choose, we want it to be friendly human and then just comfortable a lot warmer than what people might have in mind.
Jennifer Blanco:
And especially being in more of the medical field. Is that something that was one of your goals thinking through, I don’t want to have all of this medical jargon associated with my product. I want to be something that anybody would get as soon as they look at it or look at our packaging or something like that?
Leo Ochoa:
Yes. I think that’s what I learned a lot from being involved with Phillips in the different business sectors. It was really taking that fear of what people might have in mind of a doctor’s office or clinical space that starting developing as a child where it doesn’t feel like a comfortable, friendly experience. So it’s trying to remove that fear by letting them know we’re going to help you, but we’re also friendly and approachable, and we’re going to do it in a way that fits your lifestyle well. So yes, it’s a lot of reducing that anxiety and providing a new experience.
Jennifer Blanco:
That’s awesome. I love that. I think that that’s so great and such a good way to connect to your customers. So thinking through outside of work, Leo, besides going to SpaceX launches, what would you consider something that’s rebellious in your own life?
Leo Ochoa:
I learned this recently because of how the weather is changing here. It’s getting colder, it’s getting wet. We’ve been getting more rain. I still enjoy running in the rain. There’s times when I’ve been at my desk all day, I’m stuck in an idea. I’m cozy and comfortable, but it’s like I have this built up energy. I just need to release, and I stuck in the same thought process. I want to just go out and take a run and feel the rain and let it just wash my thoughts away. I want it to bring me back to reality. And I like that it’s hard to go from a cozy spot to out in the rain, but for me, I like it. Once you get passed through that uncomfortable feeling, you find a new comfortable definition of the moment and the environment. And a lot of people think that’s crazy. A lot of people, I
Jennifer Blanco:
Think that’s crazy.
Leo Ochoa:
Yeah, a lot of my friends wouldn’t join me, so I realized, okay, it might be a little bit rebellious or I’m going against the grain in this part.
Galen Ettlin:
I’m one of those born and raised Oregonians who does carry an umbrella despite everyone saying, oh no, we don’t do that. I do.
Leo Ochoa:
Yeah, I’m still the same way. I haven’t developed that habit of carrying an umbrella. Even with glasses, you get raindrops on. It’s really annoying. And even with the hoodie, it doesn’t block the rain. I still can’t bring an umbrella with me.
Galen Ettlin:
You’re more true Oregonian than I am.
Jennifer Blanco:
Is there a rebel in our culture, Leo, that you think needs to be celebrated or that you look to maybe get inspiration?
Leo Ochoa:
I’ve been focused on a lot of movies now. The one that I’ve been having my mind around this month is because they’re launching, it’s the new Black Panther movie and then also the new Guillermo del Toro Pinocchio story. I follow directors and I always appreciate how they take an idea and bring a team around it, build a set, create a new world, and just tell a new story. And the new Pinocchio story really has captured my interest because it’s claymation. And I started as an artist before I was a designer and innovator. And I feel like Claymation is one of those arts that it’s losing you. It’s losing traction because of the amount of work it takes. So everything is really sculpted in clay. Stop motion filming. And the new Pinocchio story tells a new way of looking at the story we all grew up with, but in a modern way, the images are more realistic, the trailer is amazing, and the fact that they spent three years building it, it just increases the amount of appreciation I have for them. So I always appreciate directors that are continuing to break the mold and not depend everything on CGI and digital explosions. Guillermo del Toro is always someone I feel is a rebel in the movie industry.
Jennifer Blanco:
That’s an awesome example, for sure.
Galen Ettlin:
Well, it is now time for our ‘honey, I don’t think so’ segment talking about what’s annoying you lately, and that needs to stop in either the marketing space or maybe in the space that you’re working in. Leo, you have 60 seconds to make your case. I’m going to be timing it, so I’ll just give you kind of a five second warning or whatever when you need to wrap it up.
Leo Ochoa:
Okay.
Galen Ettlin:
Whenever you’re ready, let me know.
Leo Ochoa:
Yes, I’m ready. There’s one that’s really been bugging me. A feature I don’t even know how to describe it that’s really bugging me is with YouTube. I love YouTube. Out of all the social media platforms is the one I use the most. I’m always listening to podcasts, watching videos, learning new things. But there’s something that they’ve done with the ads. It’s not the five second skip button anymore. There’s an ad that pops up as soon as that five second ticker starts. And if you’re not careful, you accidentally click on it. And a lot of the times I’m listening to YouTube and I have it in the background, have it in my hand, and I’m looking to skip the ad. I’m waiting for that five second, I skipped the ad and I accidentally hit the image and then the ad just keeps repeating, keeps repeating. I’m watching other videos, it’s the next day and I’m getting the same ad. And it’s annoying. And it adds to that frustration and anxiety. Anxiety. And it’s like, I didn’t mean to click on it. I don’t want to see it anymore. I didn’t want to see it the first time. Why does it keep following me? And it’s a pop-up feature that really disturbs my attention and I hate it and I want it to go away
Galen Ettlin:
I totally know what you’re talking about, and I totally agree. I hate YouTube advertisements in general, although I understand why they’re there. But yeah, just don’t create a bad user experience, right?
Leo Ochoa:
Right. Because in the middle of a video and then I’m in the middle of a conversation I’m enjoying, and then that ad I accidentally hit it and it disrupts my mood. And I feel like they do it intentionally because they try to have you upgrade to the premium subscription model that you don’t get the ads, but it’s like it’s annoying and makes we want to turn the ad on the app off and then relaunch it and it just adds more steps and anxiety. Anxiety and I hate it.
Galen Ettlin:
With that said, thank you to all of our YouTube viewers today on this video version of the podcast. Haha! Well, Leo, it has been so nice to connect with you. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing your really inspirational story, starting your own company and helping people out through the technology that you’re helping develop and design. And Jennifer, thank you to you for joining as well. It was really fun to have you on the podcast and hopefully we can have more of your friends on.
Jennifer Blanco:
Yes. This was so exciting. So great to see you, Leo, and so great to give some love to Dorsum Tech as well.
Leo Ochoa:
Yes. Thank you so much, Galen, it was great to meet you. And Jennifer, thank you for the invitation. It was great to catch up. We got to do it again.
Galen Ettlin:
Thanks everyone for listening to the Rebel Instinct Podcast. Be sure to follow Act-On Software for updates in upcoming episodes, and remember to always act on your rebel instinct. Until next time.
Check out the next episode of the Rebel Instinct Podcast with Heidi Bullock, CMO of Tealium and former CMO of Engagio and Global VP of Marketing at Marketo.