On every episode of the Rebel Instinct, our team sits down with rebels from across the marketing landscape to share stories about bold moves they’ve taken as marketers. Subscribe for more.
Galen Ettlin:
You are listening to the Rebel Instinct Podcast by Act-On Software For all the marketing innovators living outside the box, rebels Unite. I’m Galen Ettlin with Acton Software, joined by my VP of Marketing, Casey Munck, and our guest today, Sara Gelenberg-Field, former VP and head of marketing for Nestle for US Coffee, a former marketing director for Starbucks and current chief marketing officer of Mommy’s Bliss. Sara, you’ve had a stint at Crest with Proctor and Gamble as well, so you’re really keeping us alive through hygiene, caffeine and happy moms, thanks for being here and thanks for existing, keeping the world spinning here.
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
You bet. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to talk all things marketing today.
Casey Munck:
Yes, Sara, thank you so much and welcome. We worked together when you were at a badass marketing agency, Kingston Marketing Group, and you were such a help to me as I kind of got on board in addition to all the amazing roles that you’ve had. That was another one that wasn’t included in the bio, but it’s so good to see you.
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
You too. You too. You’re an awesome marketer too, Casey, so I’m just super happy to be here today.
Galen Ettlin:
A happy marketing family. Yes. Well, Sara, starting things off here, like I said, you’ve got a lot of big names under your belt. What was your experience really trying to transform marketing strategies in those big corporate environments?
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
Yeah, that’s a great question. It’s not easy to do that sometimes when you’ve got a big machine that is operating smoothly and has processes and ways and systems of working and people align to doing things a certain way to actually shift and be relevant with new technologies and new digital marketing can be actually challenging sometimes even when the consumers are telling us, Hey, this is where I’m spending my time. This is how I’m engaging with media and marketing. And one of the things that I found to be most powerful is just to share examples internally of what other companies and what other brands are doing. The power of an example, the power of showing somebody else’s website or digital marketing or how they’re using loyalty or how they’re using data is so powerful. And that’s often how I’ve found has been an effective tool to get people to shift their perspective and start to embrace some of new technologies or new marketing practices. So it’s fun, but it can be hard and sometimes you find yourself repeating yourself over and over again before you are able to make traction. But it can be very satisfying to help a company evolve and transform.
Galen Ettlin:
Along those lines, how have you really seen those strategies evolve and try to keep up with all of the digital noise out there?
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
It’s really just following the consumer or the customer and finding out where they are and being there for ’em and understanding how they’re engaging, what’s happening in their lives, what kind of messages are resonating with them. And that’s really, that’s what keeps me grounded in terms of trying new things or convincing others within an organization that that’s where we need to go.
Casey Munck:
I have a question for you because a brand like Starbucks for example, it feels always so current with what’s happening and trending in society, but it’s such a large corporation, which it can be so hard to lift off programs. Do you have any insider secrets from your time there?
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
I dunno that it’s a secret necessarily. There were a few key things I think that we did really well at Starbucks. One, to your point, we were able to stay on trend and again, that’s just listening to the customer and finding out what’s resonating for them. It’s also keeping a pulse on competitors and what’s happening with them. Starbucks is a big company, but we try to stay very collaborative at our heart because to the consumer it’s just one brand, but there are a lot of people that are involved in that brand. So good communication, good collaboration internally helps keep us connected so that we weren’t showing up as one brand over here and a different brand over here. And then just grounding ourselves in what are the business objectives, where’s the long-term strategy going and keeping everybody kind of on board with when I was working on a particular part of the Starbucks business, just helping keep everybody grounded in what our goals were, what we’re trying to achieve, and how that ultimately helps build the brand from a total company perspective. So it’s just a lot of great collaboration and communication, I think to keep a brand as big as Starbucks, all moving in the same direction and sometimes you have to go fast and you have to pop down to somebody’s office or jump on a Zoom call and talk about your vision and move quickly so that you can stay on a trend or react to something quickly that’s happening.
Casey Munck:
Did you ever skip approvals that were according to the chain of command because you knew you had to get it out there?
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
That is a good question. No, I can’t think of any time that I did.
Casey Munck:
I love it. I had to ask, this is a podcast about rebellion I had to ask. So what’s your favorite Starbucks drink? Do you still drink Starbucks
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
Every day? Yeah, every morning my husband and I brew a pot of organic Yukon blend in our drip brewer that we have in our kitchen. And then when I go to Starbucks, I’m a big fan of just a good old oat milk latte.
Casey Munck:
Love oat milk. That’s great. Well, moving away from coffee onto rebellion, what’s the most rebellious or out of the box thing that you’ve tried and how did it perform?
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
As a marketer, I try to always be testing and learning and setting aside a portion of my budget and my resources to try new things. And I find that that’s really important. If we are not constantly rebelling or trying new things, we’re not learning and growing as a marketing organization or marketers or as a marketing function. So I always want to be pushing the envelope and failing fast and cheaply in trying new things, new tools, new tactics. I’ve definitely had my fair share of times where we tried something and it failed miserably. And I’ve also had times where we tried something and that ended up being so meaningful that we ended up expanding it over time and doing more of that. I think it’s fun too to be a marketer and to be doing things that work, but also to be trying things that might not work or they might work.
Casey Munck:
That’s a part of the mix. I think that’s some good covert corporate rebellion and that’s something that I’ve kind of admired from how things you’ve taught me. It’s like if you don’t want to cause an earthquake but you know that you want to make change, you know want to try different things, how can you do that effectively without freaking out the rest of the organization? So good advice to climb that ladder and work for such well-known companies takes visibility. Right. So you’ve worked at Nestle, I mean some of these giant well-known brands. What advice do you have for people on how to stand out and climb the ladder?
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
I got some great advice early in my career. I naturally tend to be on the quiet side and I had a leader say to me, Sara, feel free to speak up in meetings and participate. And I told her that I was nervous, I felt intimidated by the other voices in the room and everybody was saying such intelligent and smart and thoughtful things. And she said to me, just listen for a second. Not everybody is saying smart and intelligent and thoughtful things all the time. You’d be surprised if you really pay attention. She said, I love when people are participating and being an actively involved in the conversation. I don’t expect brilliance every time you open your mouth. I just want you to know that you’re thinking about it and that you’re involved and engaged. And she gave me freedom in just that piece of advice that it’s not about saying the most brilliant thing every time you open your mouth, it’s just about participating and sharing your enthusiasm and passion.
So that was one piece of advice that I think really helped me feel comfortable being at the table, speaking up, not feeling intimidated when I was in a room of people maybe that didn’t look like me or had more experience than me. I brought in a valuable perspective, whatever it was in that meeting or that time. I think the other thing too is I’ve realized what my personal brand is over time and what it is that I bring uniquely as Sara to the table. And for me it’s just positivity and optimism for the future and that’s who I am. And so I’m not afraid to bring that to my team or to my leaders or anywhere else. And so I’ve become known for that and that’s something that makes me different or stand out within a large organization at times.
Casey Munck:
I love that.
Galen Ettlin:
There’s a couple of things there. You mentioned the positivity, which we really need more of, but also really beating back that imposter syndrome of, oh, I’m intimidated. I don’t maybe belong in this room when really you wouldn’t be there if you didn’t.
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
Right, that’s exactly right. I’ve given imposter syndrome so much thought over my career because there are times I think where everybody feels that and feels like what am I doing here and I need to prove myself. And in fact, he exactly your point, you wouldn’t be there if you weren’t supposed to be there. And sometimes we just need to find that strength within us, but we also need to help support others who we realize might be feeling intimidated and advocacy for others and speaking up and support of others is also I think, really important. So I think we can both pump ourselves up but also help others feel important and heard and listened to as well.
Casey Munck:
I mean we have to ask the quiet people in the room. Susie, what do you think about this? It’s our job because sometimes the loudest voice in the room is not the most intelligent. Sometimes it’s the quietest person, they’ll speak up and I’m all for encouraging and lifting up people that may not feel because they’re not as boisterous that they can’t hold their own. And I think over time, the more that we do that for our colleagues, the stronger, more confident they get.
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
And that was me 10, 15 years ago, so I needed that encouragement and that ended up making all the difference.
Galen Ettlin:
What advice would you give to marketers to be more rebellious in their jobs?
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
Don’t be afraid to take risks. Calculated smart risks. I think if you’re grounded in your customer or your consumer, you can be and you can step out and you can make a name for your brand or your business if you really understand what’s going to resonate with them and if you really understand your brand and your brand voice. I thought it was really interesting. My husband told me that he saw on Twitter the other day that Weight Watchers had a brilliant tweet about Kanye West and I think Weight Watchers doesn’t have anything to do with Kanye West, but they captured a moment and they thought about their brand and they captured a true moment in time to stand out. And I thought it was really interesting how they did that.
Casey Munck:
I can’t wait to see that tweet from Weight Watchers. Go Weight Watchers.
Galen Ettlin:
Alright, so beyond work, how is Sara a rebel?
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
I push myself to try to do things that I think I can’t do. So I trained, I’m not a runner by any means. I don’t run, but I had a friend push me to train for a half marathon a couple of years ago and I got hooked. So it felt like a big rebellion against my natural tendency, which is to not run, to not move like that. And I pushed myself and I said, you know what? I bet that I can do this. I’m going to do it. So that was one example of being a rebel. I think also as the times are changing, we’re moving past the pandemic in many ways. I’m saying yes to more things and going to concerts more with my teenage daughters and just saying, let’s do it. I don’t care if it’s a Wednesday night and a school night and I’ve got to go to work tomorrow. We’re going to go to a concert tonight and just have a great time and seize the moment.
Galen Ettlin:
Having a teenage daughter would probably be a good example for how to rebuild.
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
Totally. Yes, yes. I get lots of inspiration from them.
Casey Munck:
What concerts have y’all gone to lately?
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
We went to One Republic about a month ago and we went to, oh gosh, don’t laugh. We went to the Backstreet Boys in August.
Galen Ettlin:
Classic. They were here in Portland too.
Casey Munck:
Backstreet Boys are back for life.
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
It was so fun, and I date myself to say this, but I went to their concert back in 2000 when they did their millennium tour. Oh my gosh. It was so fun to see them again.
Galen Ettlin:
Full circle.
Casey Munck:
Who’s your favorite Backstreet Boy?
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
Who’s my favorite Backstreet Boy… Yeah. I actually met Howie in 2000 or 2001 at a club in Los Angeles and my friends convinced me that I should go up and say hi, and tell ’em that I was a fan. So I like Howie. I think he’s a great guy.
Casey Munck:
I love it. He looks great. He does. So Sara, what rebel in our culture needs to be celebrated and why?
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
Honestly, I’ll link it to embracing diversity. I think sometimes as a culture we can get stuck and even as marketers in listening to the same voices over and over again. And to be a rebel, you need to hear different perspectives. You need to listen to different voices and you need to be open to different ways of doing things from different people. And so I actually think right now where we’re at in our lives and our culture, embracing diversity is an important rebellion to actively participate in and to be willing to try new things based on other people’s perspectives. So I know it’s lofty and it’s high level, but I really think that embracing diversity is one of the best ways that we can be rebellious marketers.
Casey Munck:
Yeah, we’ve been doing a lot of work in that area here at Act-On and just had some great training on that yesterday for four hours and it was so meaningful.
It’s time for our ‘honey, I don’t think so’ segment talking about what’s annoying you now in marketing or MarTech that needs to stop. You’ve got 60 seconds deplete your case and Galen will be counting you down. We’re very firm to the time limit. So Sara, are you ready for your ‘honey, I don’t think so.’
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
I am ready for my ‘honey, I don’t think so.’ So the thing that I would love to see changed is this tendency towards analysis paralysis. As marketers, we have access to so much great data, but data is a rear view mirror and it can lead us to continuing to do the things that we’ve always done. So I want to see more marketers grab a white piece of paper and just envision the future. Data is a great tool to understand what has worked and what might work in the future, but sometimes we just need to start with a white piece of paper and envision where we want to go, where we want to take things. So if we get too lost in the data, we may end up missing the forest for the trees. And I think that’s really important as marketers. So don’t get lost in the data, use it, but also don’t let it pull you down the rabbit hole.
Casey Munck:
Brilliant. Turn the page baby. Don’t caught up in that. I’ve been in some data storms myself. Sara is all have so beautiful to talk to you. Thank you so much for making the time. All the best at Mommy’s Bliss. I’m going to be watching to see what y’all are up to and thanks again.
Sara Gelenberg-Field:
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It was great to see you both.
Galen Ettlin:
Thanks everyone for listening to the Rebel Instinct Podcast. Be sure to follow Act-On Software for updates in upcoming episodes and remember to always act on your rebel instinct. Until next time.
Check out the next episode of the Rebel Instinct Podcast with Leo Ochoa, a designer and innovator who founded Dorsum, focused on mobility support devices.